The Lone Badger said:
Margulis (original recipe) did a pretty decent job of trapping the Tenno in the Dream, brainwashing them
Margulis is weird, straight up. Supposedly the original helped with the initial creation of warframes as a way to use transference to help the tenno recover from the events on the Zariman, but warframes were also created before the tenno had transference. Margulis was also dead and replaced by Natah before the tenno became the tenno and were rescued by Margulis, Palladino says that the Lotus personality was created by the tenno while they dreamed. We don't know how the tenno ended up in cryosleep on Lua protected by Lotus, beyond that Margulis/Natah/Lotus either put them there or convinced them to go there willingly after the Orokin Empire was tipped over and under threat from the other Ssentients. The tenno have a lot of missing memories from the Orokin Empire era, and no one knows why. It could have been brainwashing, it could have been willing, it's all still a bunch of question marks with time and dimension travel shenanigans baked in from the beginning.
Starsight said:
Rather, what happens is that the very essence of their existence is subjected to annihilation by Oryx's will. Each of those fragments would have even less of a will and would be crushed into nothing by the single governing law law of Oryx's world: sword logic.
I feel like this is a tautology; they'd be annihilated, so they'd be annihilated. It seems like you're asserting that he'd passively kill the tenno's mind and soul automatically due to "much strong paracausality" as soon as their mind and soul is projected into his throne world and that it'd also kill them everywhere and they'd stay dead, ignoring all the comparable stuff that doesn't actually keep them dead, without anything beyond "he's got more biggatons" as a reason why it'd work.
Starsight said:
I mean... the attack that he uses on Mara, combined with the fact that Mara even existing in the throne world would have caused it to tear her psyche into a quintillion pieces if she hadn't withstood the formation of the Distributary, should do the trick just fine. Also, given the sheer range of the screamspace pulse, it's entirely possible that the Tenno's Orbiter would get caught in the effect if they tried to board, even if they deployed a Landing Craft to actually get on board.
I mean, that pulse appears to be a slowly-expanding spherical shockwave that ended smaller than a planet, couldn't the tenno just... dodge it then? A tenno should be able to avoid any effects except the persistent, passive effects of being in the throne world. They have a ton of kinds of teleportation. It's not like I'm saying the tenno are trying to ram their orbiter into Oryx or anything either. Just like they do for... pretty much everything in warframe, the orbiter would presumably stay stealth and hidden elsewhere in the solar system under a void cloak with the tenno's real body inside, with the landing craft(EDIT: not orbiter, sorry) dropping the tenno off near the battlefield and then pulling back to orbit and itself also hiding under a void cloak. If it's a ship-to-ship engagement the tenno boards from, tenno are presumably hitching a ride on local ships or hoofing it in archwing, because railjack (which has been specifically omitted from the things this tenno brought over) and archwing are how tenno do all of their space battles. Landing craft have been destroyed, and are also something tenno explicitly have made multiple of, so it's not like losing that would be a big problem anyway. Like, for Oryx to hit the orbiter and the tenno's real body would require a range that covers a significant amount of the solar system.
Which, uh.
I feel like that would have made a lot of Oryx's war of conquest a lot easier, if he could manage it.
Starsight said:
And saying that you have to use the Void to close Void portals is a classic NLF.
It's a specific plot point multiple times that non-void stuff can't close the portal; you need to establish that destiny non-paracausal, uh, dimensional barrier tech, I suppose, is significantly better than what the Orokin have, or that void and light & darkness can interact with each other. If they can interact with each other, the tenno should be able to interact with the external light stuff to fight Oryx, just as, from what I understand, the guardians did?
ImaginaryIdjit said:
Do the Orokin and Man in the Wall have better feats than Oryx's capabilities?
Barring the Big Bang comparison by Mara, as far as I know, yes. The Man in the Wall is connected to every tenno, is who gave all of them their power initially (before each tenno figured out how to be a self-sustaining living void portal,) and appears able to duplicate what any of them do; Rell, Albrecht, and the Holdfasts have said if he's able to enter reality he'd be able to do pretty much anything, and the Origin system would become a hellscape. The Orokin, before their fall, used to steal and seal fingers from him and use them to make reliquary drives, which a single one enables ships like railjacks to do ftl jumps without the solar rails that most in the Origin system use; there's some tens of millions of those reliquary drives currently active. The Man in the Wall is, according to in-game dialogue, present anywhere the reliquary drives or tenno are. A few characters have speculated that the Man in the Wall is a sort of living embodiment of the void itself, and that he knows and can do anything any thinking being that comes into contact with the void can do. Beyond this, he's supposedly doing all this in an infinite multiverse simultaneously, as a single being.
To be clear, though, while tenno have powers derived from him, and potentially immortality backed by him beyond their normal immortalities, there has not really been any direct conflict between the Man in the Wall and the tenno shown on screen beyond Rell's struggle in the Chains of Harrow quest, and that's atypical for a lot of reasons, as well as quite vague. That's also the only example of the Man in the Wall even coming close to successfully brainwashing a tenno.
As to the Orokin, every single piece of tech seen in warframe except things the sentient natively developed is derived from Orokin tech. The sentients were also developed by the Orokin, to be clear, they just went on to singularity in a different solar system and the Orokin couldn't keep up in a war against them until the tenno got forcibly enlisted.
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